Retroactive changes to criminal pardons violate charter rights, B.C. judge rules

Eveposted 6 years ago

This could be great news for those of us that completed sentences when they raised the waiting period from 5-10 years!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pardons-criminal-records-record-suspensions-1.4076237

Replies (recent first):

They have finally put in a system to deal with offences that should have never been criminalized, such as same sex offences.

The Parole Board calls it an expungement.

https://www.canada.ca/en/parole-board/services/expungements.html

This is not for possession of marijuana convictions.
Requirements:

-Same sex activity
-over 16 years old
-consent was present.

JOHN ROGERS replied 5 years ago   #40

#39 John Rogers, I have been hearing this rumor for a while, although, my contact has not confirmed it yet.. I am going to call her today... I think it is a flat fee per court house..but still, many people have charges that are at several different courthouses. I am not sure how I am going to deal with this..currently, right now, I charge a flat fee that includes everything, but the USA Filing Fee and Parole Board Fee, I did this,because I hated going back and asking for more money..but now, I think I am going to have to charge a flat fee for my service, and then advise additional fees will follow once, I get the criminal record back. It is going to be a tough sale as people want to know total..and now I can't advise...I am curious how you guys work your pricing..because some court houses charge in Ontario too....Alberta charges $20 per conviction, which can get pricey also..but thankfully, most of my clients only have 1 or 2 convictions from there. I did have a client who had over $600 worth of Court documents, she cancelled her pardon..as it was just too much money...

michelle replied 5 years ago   #39

Court documents may be needed when applying for a US Entry Waiver. Each court has their applicable fees for these documents. Please note that as of July 1st, 2018 all Saskatchewan courts will now be charging a $75.00 flat fee to request court documents regarding a US Entry Waiver. If you are doing a pardon (record suspension) that fee is going to be $100.00. Please contact your applicable court house for applicable fees.

Michelle, have you heard about this? Is there a way around this? Could this only be applicable to outside the province or everyone?

JOHN ROGERS replied 5 years ago   #38

@LILONGWE well thats why we were heartened by the commitment to make changes by the Liberals. And the consultations were great, and asked the right questions, but I am hoping the end will soon be here and we can have a better system. Our system in 2010 was very fair. I woudl like them to go back to that.

JOHN ROGERS replied 5 years ago   #37

People who do something wrong against society's morals are often persecuted and punished. A society needs a system of laws in order for its people to be safe and protected. Each country or culture has its own rules which constantly change with time. Something that was a crime 20 years ago may no longer be unacceptable behavior today.

That being said, we are lucky to live in the western world where countries are more open and tolerable. However, there is still a social stigma attached to a person who violates the rules. Society is unable to distinguish between a true criminal and a person who made a simple mistake.

Since 9/11, North America has become paranoid and politicians or media like to attack a particular group of people as nobody will protect them. These people are the ones who have been charged, convicted or have been living as undocumented immigrants. Right wing politicians enjoy demonizing these individuals in order to divert public opinion from more serious issues at hand.

@John Rogers

You need to consider the above. You can see why Liberals are slow at reversing the changes made by Conservatives. Many people had a simple brush with the law. Canada has a system for second chances but a large portion of canadian society doesn't believe in second chances. The majority of Conservatives don't believe so either. Most US politicians do not. The media will surely cause a huge scandal over any attempt by Liberals to making pardons easier to get.

The NDP is serious about criminal reform but I wonder if they would tackle the issue if they were in power as they are as vocal in the opposition.

The Liberals have a very big issue at hand right now with weed legalisation. Once this issue is solved, I believe new legislation for criminal reform will be passed. Elections are up next year so you can only hope it happens before a Conservative win.

Many Conservatives have been showing their true colors as of late. They don't believe in gun control, support the death penalty and often threaten to reopen old debates that have been settled and accepted by most. I believe their ideas do not reflect canadian society but our society is changing. Many people feel vulnerable and the population is aging. The same generation which once was more open 40 years ago is now older and more frightened by recent world events.

Today's younger generation has more freedom than their parents, generally more focused on family, more educated and more law observing. That being said, some young adults choose to disobey and sadly throw their future away. A Conservative win in the next elections will surely make pardons even harder to get for these individuals who just begin adulthood. A simple DUI or assault conviction can also destroy the reputation of anyone with a loving family.

Nobody really cares about ex convicts, prisoners or criminals. Then why would politicians really care about criminal reform?

Lilongwe replied 5 years ago   #36

For those of you frustrated at waiting for the changes to the Pardon/Record Suspension process, this is a great example of why these things take so long.

https://openparliament.ca/debates/2018/5/7/wayne-long-1/

While the Liberal Member Wayne Long makes some great points, its amazing that they want MORE TIME to study it. They suggest 9 months.

The NDP wants to go ahead immediately, and just reverse the changes, and the Conservatives are pretending that the changes never went far enough. One idiot actually says its not a barrier to getting hired, because he "used to own a business". Then he goes on to pontificate how people who own guns are being persecuted. Typical Conservative idiot.

Not a single mention of the fact that the Charter was breached in 2012 and SOMEONE should in fact be apologizing for making two brave individuals go to court to get those changes reversed in Ontario and BC.

JOHN ROGERS replied 5 years ago   #35

I have been finding some are getting much faster. The slow ones are still taking about a year at the board.

JOHN ROGERS replied 5 years ago   #34

@John Rogers, wow, that is great..sometimes things just go right...hopefully, this will become a trend with the PBC..

Michelle replied 5 years ago   #33

A friend I do MMA with and I thought would have trouble with just got his Pardon. It was at the Board barely a month. It came in this morning and I am quite shocked it was so quick. He had a lot of speeding tickets. Paid them all recently, but I still thought there would be an issue.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #32

Calling who? Did you use a company or on your own?

If you did it on your own and it is at the Parole Board, its about a year.

Call them anyways. 1-800-874-2652

Some pardons that go to the Board are very quick. Rule of thumb...if you get the acknowledgement letter saying they have taken the $631 then look at it taking about a year. They skip the letter and just GRANT the pardon in certain cases where you have only summary convictions and the court documents can confirm this. This takes 1-3 months.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #31

hello i applied for a pardon in august 2017 i am wondering how long to wait to get it.. assuming they say yes?
it was from over 25 years ago and i fall into those in Ontario and BC that can now get pardon for it.

i was thinking of calling them, but not sure I should. thanks in advance for any comments thanks!!

toronto-many123 replied 6 years ago   #30

Thank you John for acknowledging that I have a great answer. Again, the focus should be on the people as opposed to focusing on me. I will indeed become a parrot since I find that I am constantly repeating myself to you.

K SCOTT replied 6 years ago   #29

Great answer Ken. Like I said, usual Ken Scott bullshit.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #28

John, you really need to get some help I think. You say things and seem to forget them? Why is it that you cannot leave me alone and just focus on helping people in the group? You already know the things that you say but it is not worth the focus. Stick to what you know best...providing relevant links to things...Also, I can give you a job to help ya out. I am ok with that since I need someone for the Ontario region probably around Nov 2018 or so.

Obviously, you are not that busy since you have ample time to come here and talk about utter nonsense...lol

K SCOTT replied 6 years ago   #27

Usual Ken Scott bullshit.

Are you going to be man enough to apologize or do we just consider you a homphobe and leave it at that? That's pretty despicable in 2018. If you had children, or associated with kids, you would realize that in 2018, usually only bitter old men say stupid shit like that. I have some clients that are gay, and are actually afraid to declare that they are married to a same sex partner on their application. Time to grow up and drop that from your lexicon. Seriously.

"My associates are closing them down"...you have 1 guy who works with you. You have no other associates.

I am still waiting for this supposed facebook post you found so offensive. Post it and lets see.

Pearson Intl Airport is not taking waivers and there was no "aisle" for me to walk down. You obviously have no idea what the waiver portion looks like or what you are taking about. I never walked up and down. I sit down and we all chat for 4 hours. I check everyone waiver for them as they wait. I bring extra copies of forms in case people have the wrong ones. Its a great place to stay in touch with what everyone in doing and what everyone is getting because you get to see a cross section of waivers that you haven't prepared. People waiting appreciate the review, clients appreciate not having to go early because I put their name on the list, and Homeland Security appreciates me telling the people who have the wrong documents to go home...its saves them a lot of time. Everyone wins.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #26

Yes, John, it is 2018 and you are right in that everyone should be accepted. However, I not gonna stoop to your level and post inappropriate posts here like the one you posted in the FB group about me. This group is about helping people with waivers and we see no proof of your"seminars" or videos. We have youtube videos of me giving such seminars and we interview people on our internet talk radio show. It is great that you coach kids since they indeed need guidance growing up.

I am concerned about your apparent lack of experience/knowledge regarding these border crossing cases. You are the one that goes to Pearson walking up and down the aisle asking people if they need help with waivers. This is not how we do business in BC or Alberta.

We have done quite a few free cases for people and we give free information on our site in multiple areas. So please tell me how giving free information, doing free seminars and doing free cases for some people is soliciting? When was the last time that you have offered anything meaningful to the community besides coaching?

You are right that soliciting can be BS. So perhaps you should stop the focus on me and just be there for the clients instead of me. You are the very reason that we warn the public about Discount Waiver Companies. Thankfully, this term is actually spreading around the internet and people are not being fooled by DWC as much anymore. Ontario is full of them and my associates are slowly closing them down. It is all thanks to you.

K SCOTT replied 6 years ago   #25

Ken Scott, I know your not from Canada, so I will explain something to you. In Canada, we don't mock people who are gay or straight or LGBQ.

This comment is very offensive. "I won't even mention the gay comments that you made towards me in one of the posts in the FB group."

Please cut and paste the "comment" you are talking about. And apologize for saying something so inappropriate in 2018.

As for giving back to the community, we already had a conversation about how I worked exclusively for Toronto, Peel, Durham and York Regional Social Services for over 10 years. We had a great program where we even went to the clients HOME and fingerprinted them so they would not have to worry about leaving the house.

I would suggest that charging a reasonable fee, for a service where you are going to know exactly what you are going to get is much more ethical than charging thousands of dollars on the 'chance' you might not have to do a waiver again, because "we know secrets". Is that what you call giving back to the community?

I coach basketball and soccer for kids while you are sitting around trying to pretend you are 'thuggish' doing podcasts with pseudo-gangsters and drinking wine. "Schools in Vancouver"...I do seminars in jails, but what would visiting schools in Vancouver do? These kids don't need a waiver and have no idea if they ever will. Your claim is not only false but makes no sense.

Look Kids, Ken Scott is here to tell you about going across the border! If you ever get a criminal record, and you can't cross the border, and you need a waiver, he will promise to make it so you don't need a waiver...maybe...and its really expensive to find out.....ok?

Wrong demographic Ken. I coach high school rugby and although a lecture on Pardons might be 'somewhat' interesting, I can't see waivers being of much use to 17 year olds.

You are the ONLY person soliciting anything, and its bullshit.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #24

John is right about one thing in the sense that we do not focus on Canadian Pardons. We focus on resolving border crossing issues and not just us entry waivers. We specialise in clearing the complex border crossing cases actually and getting someone a permanent clearance if they qualify. I will go out on a limb and say that John may know pardons better than us since that is an area that he does focus on. Although an average Joe with a Grade 12 education can figure out how to do a pardon themselves. Btw John...we don't have to do fingerprinting yet since we have an RCMP certified affiliate that does them for us. This will be changing in the near future though. Right now we are literally focused on expanding globally between Canada and Europe. Ontario will be the last location that we will open. It's funny that you did not mention the radio show from 2 weeks ago where we were interviewing our affiliate in London U.K. that does USA investor visas Like E-1 & E-2s...hmmm

K SCOTT replied 6 years ago   #23

Well, John you sure have a lot of "personal interest" in me? It is the same that I told you in the Facebook group? What man tells another man to not be snarky? What man shows an unusual amount of interest in the social hobbies of another man???...Like asking him what kind of things does he like to do and what are his interests. Point is that you have shown a strange interest in me for some unknown reason. I won't even mention the gay comments that you made towards me in one of the posts in the FB group. You went out of your way here to talk about me for some unknown reason. Again, don't worry about me and at least attempt to focus on helping people sort out their border issues. Btw..L.S. is our administrator in our office just fyi. Also, what have you done to help promote community growth? We offer payments for people and even do certain deserving cases for free. Yet you would turn the person away if they could not afford your $399 or so waiver fee. I am really starting to suspect that you are a Discount Waiver Company....although you are a very mellow fellow... Also, to cut you off at the pass...yes we are much higher than you and for a very good reason.

John a real professional does not have to sell themselves and push their products down a person's throat. Yes, we do the internet talk radio show and youtube videos. Yes, we have guests on the show. Yes, we have done talks at various locations to include schools in Vancouver. Thank you for helping to promote us. It is really nice of you to do such. However, I must respectfully ask that you focus on helping the people or at least learning some information regarding us entry waivers from the forum.

usentrywaiverlegalservices.com

K SCOTT replied 6 years ago   #22

A pardon is not recognised by CBP anyway so it does not make a difference whether you have one or not.

This statement is only true if you have not been caught by Homeland Security. Its dishonest to say that and not explain the rest of it.

Ken Scott and LS are definitely the same person. You can hear the accent in both lol.

"HATS BOOTS HATS...a true professional will not come into the group and debate with you and the other people that need help". Ken, you do exactly the same thing. The difference is I understand that people here are mostly trying to do the waiver themselves. So i inform, and correct. I especially keep Ken Scott in check. If you need a waiver, you need a waiver. Period. This 'perception' that "maybe if you use me you will get off the waiver program' is tempting, but its false. Ken is simply doing an expensive waiver.

You don't need to hire anyone if you have a simple case with a few small convictions.

Lets compare a pardon and a waiver in terms of work.

3 small convictions

Pardon
-Fingerprints
-fill out forms
-3 court documents
-Local Police check
-3 question measurable benefits
-Petition parole board, $631 fee.

Processing time - 10-18 months on average.
Clients participation? Sign forms, get fingerprinted. Nothing else.

Waiver
-Fingerprints
-personal letter
-fill out forms
-court documents (I don't wait for these, but I do send out for them)

Clients responsibilities
-get fingeprinted
-2 letters of reference (I will write them if client wants but obviously friend must sign them)
-proof of employment
-proof of residence
-Doctors letter or drug test (if applicable)
-proof of Canadian Citizenship
-must hand it in in person and pay $585 and get fingerprinted again

Time period - 4-5 months for about 85% of clients

The pardon is much more work and effort for us. Takes longer, more steps. The client is actually doing very little. For the waiver, the client does more and is much more involved., and the process is much shorter. Why does that matter? Doing your own Pardon means that you have to stay involved and keep working on it for at least 8 months. A waiver you could do everything in a month and be done, waiting for an answer.

Ken Scott doesn't do pardons, so he makes them seem easier, but in reality he has cherry picked the easier application to work on. Whats weird is that he is not accredited to fingerprint. That means he has to send his clients somewhere ELSE to even do a waiver. Michelle and I are full service, we do everything right in our offices. We even do passport photos if you need it.

When I post on here, I do so to HELP people that are obviously already committed to doing it themselves. I get a lot of referrals from those people to friends and family who DO need help doing waivers and pardons. This is why I am not vague and do not hide any aspect of what people need.

Ken Scott and LS and all the other minions who are obviously on here keep pushing the "we might be able to ...." aspect of these services. Thats not how people want to do business. They want certainty for a set price.

The podcast Ken does is truly bizarre. Speaking of professionalism, please listen to the one with the "ex -gangster" on it. He mentions me 4-5 times (that guy from Ontario) and the more wine Ken drinks, the more entertaining the show becomes. They spend most of the show waiting for me to call in, and when I don't, the ex-gangster proves how tough he is by claiming "he's a pussy" about 30 times. The guy could have sounded authentic except I don't think real ex gangsters who are also waiting for a waiver to come back, go on a podcast to challenge some guy 4 provinces away who isn't even listening. I don't think real gangsters care about a guy who does waivers in Ontario.

I listened to one other one, which featured a lady who Ken helped (but at time of broadcast is still waiting for a waiver). The whole point of the show is that he has his local fingerprinting company on the air, speaking Hindi to the Brampton community. Apparently the point of the show is that Ken is going to help this woman get RCMP accredited and send her to Brampton/Mississauga to open a fingerprinting company and compete with me. The best part is of course on the air the lady is making plans to get trained at the fingerprinting company. Ken, who has no accreditation himself has not mentioned to the lady that with a criminal record its certain she cannot be accredited either, and that the whole thing is pretty farcical, since I assume the plan is for her to uproot her life and move to Ontario. Ken seems to stay sober for this particular podcast, but he does start it out with "God Save the Queen" and mentions "mother England" a few times. Long and a bit tedious, but entertaining. I have yet to hear of any grand openings happening in my area.

JOHN ROGERS replied 6 years ago   #21

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