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Once waiver is received

append delete Ruby

We have now have the waiver and have booked our trip. What happens now? We are flying in to Vancouver then Hawaii. Do we have to let customs know we have a waiver or wait for them to ask? Do we have to tell them ahead of flying there? Will we have to go to secondary and if so will it be a long process? The waiver was for possession over thirty years ago..any chance we will be denied entry? Thanks for the info

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append delete #51. John Rogers

I have done K-1 visas with a long ban in place, but never a visa where you are already married. No matter what you are filing, if you are inadmissible, you will be asked to file an I-601 at some point to "waiver" your inadmissibility.

The K-1 visa is the "Fiance visa" and in a real relationship, a fairly easy visa to get. I have no done one since Trump was in power though, so I cannot give definitive advice as to whether it would work with an existing ban.

append delete #52. Adelaide

#50- @WaiveMein

Thanks for your input. :)

#51 - @John Rogers

I am not already married. I have a 10 year ban for an overstay... (no criminal record whatsoever)

If I file an I-601 this year (I'm currently 4 1/2 years into my ban) how is that different from a "regular" waiver or are they the same thing?

Is filing an I-601 a better option for me and do I have to wait the ENTIRE 10 years before they would even consider processing a green card application?

append delete #53. John Rogers


You don't simply file an i-601.

You file your regular application for the green card. If you are a Fiance, then a K-1. If you get married a spousal application. Homeland Security will ask you for the I-601 in the latter part of the application.

append delete #54. jazzsax1

Hey John,

Any noticed change lately in responses on waivers that were in the queue before the shutdown? Longer waivers? Shorter? Same?

Any trends developing?

append delete #55. Adelaide

#53 - John Rogers

Thanks for the reply as usual :)

One other question from the before: Does one have to wait the ENTIRE 10 years until the overstay ban is over before one is eligible to file a green card application?

append delete #56. John Rogers

@Adelaide I am not 100% sure. I don't do enough work in that area to give a definite answer.

@Jazzsax1 only 3 clients have gotten a reply post shutdown.

-one was a rejection (expected) because not enough time had elapsed since exclusion

-one was granted, filed February 6 granted Feb 19. Just a one year but he had been rejected in the past and has a serious record. No idea why it was so fast

-One client got a letter dated Feb 19 also, but it was to close his file because he never responded in the 87 days. Claims he never got the letter asking for more information and filed his waiver in September.

That is all the information I have post shut down to date.

append delete #57. Adelaide

#56 - John Rogers
Thank you for your answer and being humble enough to state that you are not "100% sure". That speaks to your integrity.

For first time waiver applicants what are the chances of me (in your estimation and knowledge of these things) getting a ONE year waiver versus a FIVE year waiver for an overstay (and applying for said waiver basically being half-way through a 10 year ban)?

append delete #58. John Rogers

@Adelaide I appreciate the comment. I consider myself an experts in some areas, but I try to be cautious where I am not.

Since it has been 5 years, I think you have an equal chance of getting a 5 or a 1 to be honest. My concern is that they possibly ask you for an I-212 and you will have to play $930 on top of the $585 if they do.

There is also a possibility they may say no and make you wait out your ban, although I don't think so.

append delete #59. jazzsax1

For the exclusion what was "not enough time" ?? Was it for a record or an overstay?

append delete #60. Adelaide

#58 - @John Rogers

Why would they ask for an I-212? I was neither deported nor removed from the US. I left and was denied admission when I tried to fly back in. In fact I had travelled back and forth 2-3 times when I had an overstay and apparently it wasn't flagged in their computer nor did they stop me or put me into Secondary.

Is a I-212 something they slap on to the regular waiver when they just feel like being extra-punitive? I'm not quite sure why a "regular waiver" (the $585 one) would not be sufficient.

And making me wait out the entire 10 year ban is that because of the Trump administration? Have you had clients have to wait out the ENITRE ban because of an overstay?

Other than an overstay I have no criminal record whatsoever.

Can you clarify? Thanks

append delete #61. John Rogers

@Adelaide I don't think they will make you do an I-212. Just putting all the possibilities out there.

I think you will get a waiver.

append delete #62. Michelle

#60 Adelaide, for the few waivers I have done with bans, I always do a I-212, along with the I-192 application. So far, I have been lucky and both are submitted under the $585 fee. However, I advise clients that they may be asked to pay the extra fee for the I-212 when delivering their paperwork. The I-212, has more paperwork requirements then the I-192, and simply asks different questions, that is why I submit both. Regardless of deported, removed, denied, you have been denied an Immigration benefit for some reason or another, and you are now inadmissible to the USA with a ban on top of it. How and when you get back in before your ban is up, is going to be a matter of filing the proper paperwork and some luck in my opinion. If you were my client, I would advise there is no grantee, if you want to apply now, go ahead and see what happens. Otherwise wait until your ban is completed, and file a standard waiver.

append delete #63. Adelaide

#61 - @John Rogers - once again thanks for the reply and the information.
One question for you - In what scenarios have you had to file an I-212 for your clients with overstays or is that usually because of an overstay AND something else?

#62 - @Michelle - thank you for weighing in with your knowledge.
You say you ALWAYS do an I-212 and you were able to submit them both under the $585 fee. Why would they have a separate fee for the I-212 then yet you've been lucky to get both the I-192 and I-212 for the same fee?

BTW - I have no desire whatsoever to wait out my ten year ban.

I understand there is no guarantee with the the waiver process. Unfortunately we have the Trump administration to deal with. One of the main things Hilary Clinton wanted to overhaul was the immigration system as it pertained to Canadians as she thought the US immigration system was too draconian as it applied to Canadians. Just our bad luck to get Trump instead.

THIS QUESTION IS FOR BOTH Michelle and John Rogers (and whoever else wishes to weigh in):

Do they often ask for an I-212 sort of in the same vein as an RFE (request for evidence) AFTER an I-192 has been adjudicated and they may wish for more information?

:: @Adelaide added on 02 Mar ’19 · 03:29

Btw Michelle - my ban was for an overstay ONLY. I have no criminal record of any sort at all.

append delete #64. michelle

I do I 212 for bans..not regular denied or overstays..as I mentioned it has been pure luck that my clients have not had to pay for the I 212..I dont think custom officers at the small rural port of entry we have around here..really know what an I 212 is..also..I think another reason as I stated before..I do not do waivers that have more then 1 year ban left..and my clients must...must. .have very good reasons for going back to usa..such as hardship to family member living there..medical issues..ect....I have never been asked to submit an I 212 after submitting an I 192..however..more evidence has been asked after submitting an I 192..

append delete #65. michelle

In this case..it doesnt really make any difference that u have no criminal record as that is not the reason u were given a ban..u r submitting applications for the reason customs issued the ban..

append delete #66. John Rogers


I take a different approach than Michelle (although I give the client both options) Part of this is because we deal with different borders.

I advise NEVER giving an I-212 unless specifically asked by Homeland Security. When I do the waiver I try and make sure ALL EVIDENCE that would pertain to an I-212 is in the package. I am trying to "head off" the need for an I-212.

I find in many cases even where it is obvious that it SHOULD be an I-212 we have gotten away with JUST the waiver.

It does not work EVERYTIME, and there is a delay because the client gets a letter asking for the I-212. At that point I have the client come in, do the 11 page form up in about 10 minutes, and they go and hand it in. They also pay $930

The idea is to not have the client pay the $930 and the $585 unless they have no choice. At our borders here, if you show up with an I-212 they will take the $$ or not take the application. (This is different than what Michelle describes at the borders she deals with)

Adelaide, don't get wound up about what COULD happen. I am sure it will simply be a yes or no, the I-212 will not be involved. I try to give ALL the possibilities, but lets not fixate on the least likely one.

append delete #67. Adelaide

#64-#65 - Thanks for the input again @michelle.

#66 - @John Rogers

Thanks - I totally agree "lets not fixate on the least likely one". Prudent advice - but then I've come to expect that from you having read your commentary on this forum.

I think it's because I had never read about I-212s being needed for a simple waiver and hadn't seen too much information (or simply haven't been paying attention on here) about them that I kind of felt blindsided with what was "new information" to me.

When I was stopped in Secondary the CBP Officer said I needed an I-192 and handed me the packet for it. In my mind, having seen the comment about the I-212 on here, I guess I got it into my mind that if I needed the I-212 the CBP Officer would have explicitly apprised me of that fact and ALSO handed me a packet for that as well.

append delete #68. John Rogers

@Adelaide sometimes even Homeland Security makes mistakes when they deny you entry and Herndon Va. will give a different response.

That being said, you sound like a classic waiver and nothing else.

append delete #69. KSCOTT

I believe a few months ago someone here asked about Border Crossing Cards. Today we can say with 1,000,000% certainty that they are still valid and the person does not need #usentrywaiver us entry waiver if they still have the border crossing card.

We just got feedback from a client today that got cleared at one of our borders based on our case presentation and that he had a Border Crossing Card. We basically prepared his case to show why he does not need a waiver and that the BCC should be accepted. CBP agreed and told him that he only needs to get an I-94 every 6 months.

So you are definitely all good if you have one of the old border crossing cards. You do not need a us entry waiver since the old BCC is actually the original permanent waiver and not a September Letter. If CBP says that you still need a waiver, then please let us know since they are mistaken.

There was a bit of confusion out there whether they are still valid. We can say for sure that this is indeed the case.


append delete #70. John Rogers

@Ken Scott

The old border crossing card (i-175) was issued by Immigration and Naturalization and was discontinued after 9/11.

I have never seen it 'accepted' at any border, although sometimes they will cut the person a break and let them continue through that one time.

Your post makes no sense.

-If the card is accepted, why did you have to prepare anything?
-"We basically prepared his case to show why he does not need a waiver and that the BCC should be accepted" Which is it? He needs a waiver? or he doesn't need a waiver? The i-175 IS a waiver that people did not have to renew. It was NOT a September letter.
-If he doesn't need a waiver, then he doesn't need an I-94 card.

Did you mean to say, he doesn't need to RE-APPLY for the waiver, he just continues to use the I-175 card?

Are you now saying that a person can only use this card if its "based on our case presentation and that he had a Border Crossing Card."?

Would your case presentation not simply consist of the person (if they are accepted anyways) of them presenting the Border Crossing Card?

The post seems a little rushed. Can you be a bit more specific, although the i-175 card is a rarity anyways.

append delete #71. Michelle

@69, and 70, I personally have never seen this card, in the 15 years I have been involved with waivers. I would love to see a sample if anyone has it..I have clients who did have this card taken away shortly after 9/11 and had to go through the waiver process like every other person, but that was several years ago, possible things have changed? If I ever have a new client that had or currently still has the card, I will post about it..

append delete #72. John Rogers

Just a history lesson:

Before 9/11 you would get a couple of 1 year waivers, (sometimes only 6 months) and then after 1-3 waivers you would get the i-175 card application. You submitted the picture and a fee. They sent you back a card. I started waivers in 1998 so I only a few clients who got to this point before 9/11.

After 9/11 Immigration and Naturalization was in a quandary about waivers, especially since the hijackers all had student visas.

I was doing Bjj and MMA even back then and a teammate of mine was working at Pearson Airport for Immigration and Naturalization. One day a few months after 9/11 he warned me to tell all my clients that the i-175 card was going to stop working in a year and to get all my clients to apply for a new waiver.

So I called up everyone I knew and told them to re-apply. Some were skeptical and did nothing, and others applied as soon as they can. Remember that fingerprints were ink and paper back then, and you had to send them by mail to the RCMP with $25 to get the fingerprints back. The RCMP were slow because of 9/11 and getting a waiver went from 90 days to over a year. It was brutal.

The initial waivers were all 1 year waivers after that. They all came from local ports. Eventually they started to centralize them a bit and through my friend at the new "Homeland Security" and trial and error I could see that if you handed in your waiver at Pearson Airport in Toronto, the waiver was processed in Minnesota, and they started to be more lenient. My first 5 year waiver was from that port. I started to insist all clients (even if they lived in SS Marie or Ottawa) apply at Pearson.

Eventually companies copied me, to the point where in 2018 some clients of other companies were still telling people they MUST go to Pearson. (just saying you get a longer waiver if you do that)

Eventually when all waivers were centralized in Herndon Va, this technique of sending the clients changed to my present day strategy. Send everyone to the Rainbow Bridge, because they have the best hours and do not allow trucks. It doesn't matter WHERE you hand it in, they are processed at the same place.

Now Pearson has not taken waivers since July 2018 and the Rainbow Bridge is by far the best place in my region to hand in waivers.

Ironically, in Montreal they have very different rules about what is in their waiver packages than Ontario. And Michelle has made it clear that out west they are different yet again.

As for the i-175, it WAS a 'permanent waiver' but it was NOT a September letter. You were not granted an I-175 because you no longer needed a waiver, you were granted it because you need a waiver but pre 9/11 they didn't require you to keep applying.

That why I asked for clarification from Ken Scott. I have had people who have come in and had this old card. I always tell them to travel to the border and "see what they say". I don't want them thinking I told them to pay for a waiver they don't actually need.

Here is what makes no sense. In 2019 Trump America, where ICE is grabbing anyone they can, and they can now look into your phone at the border, and people are denied entry because they ADMIT to smoking pot, they are going to accept some old I-175 granted by an non-existent agency and not require him to ever pay any more fees? Just because someone sent a "case presentation"?

I am skeptical but more than happy to shelve that with some proof or at least a further explanation.


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