Nice to see the three of you working together now!

I will say that I worked with a former lawyer colleague and I would question him on things that he would add to the waiver packets. I told him that by adding those items, he is making the case harder for the client to win. I also asked him who does he represent/work for...the client or CBP??. Not saying that I am better than him...but his cases often got denied and more and we ourselves have only lost about 5 out of thousands. However, we employ certain things that can strengthen it.

It boils down to that these cases can be tricky and the 3 of us since we are highly experienced professionals and deal with this stuff daily. We will sort you out quite proper. There are things that we know and you will not know because you do not do deal with this stuff daily. It can be harder to address in the forum since it is always good to get specific details. There are things about pardons/ Canadian criminal system that John and Michelle clearly excel at. Michelle especially has special knowledge about internal police procedures with law enforcement agencies in regards to criminal cases...which tie into waivers. John is a recognised expert who gave presentations with various community programs on these waiver cases and has the epitome of integrity. I dealt with helping craft waivers as a defence with a former lawyer colleague at immigration removal hearings at USA immigration court. I also attended immigration lawyer conferences under the umbrella of the firm...and am also the Saul Goodman of the waiver business..lol There are things that I have experience with at DHS that are not common knowledge with the Discount Waiver Companies that I share with my 2 associates.

The point is that I plan on doing a live youtube show with my 2 associates would like people to call and email us their questions...and address whomever that they wish or the 3 of us. We can address them live. The 3 of us also endeavour to shut down the Discount Waiver Companies that rip people off and are in the process as such. It will take years though. However, our combined knowledge is a force to be reckoned with.

I will give you my opinion and my opinion only. We have never had the issue come up of restitution being paid in a waiver case. Definitely a pardon case though. Now that does not mean that they are not looking at it. We have not had it ever come up for our clients...but you must understand that each case is different. I agree with John and Michelle though. It is good to have paid it. We still have people that have not paid it and it has never been an issue. Again, no two cases are the same though. If it has not been paid and if it is a BC case...there is something that can be done to make it a non-issue. We don't even ask or check to see if it has been paid and it has never come up from DHS with us. Understand that I am just talking about our cases only. What I will say though is that if you address restitution in the letter of explanation then that is a totally different issue. Again, I do not know anything about your specific case.

@Jazzsax #1015.. I agree with John Rogers, as long as you can prove that you are paying it, you should be fine. If you were my client, I would ask you to submit proof of payments, such as letter from victim, cancelled cheques, bank statements, ect.

As long as its been paid, or your ATTEMPTING to pay it, and offence is fairly old, you should be fine.

Its still not COMMON to have to prove its paid, just more frequent than in the past.

@michelle @KSCOTT @JOHNROGERS

Do any of you know if DHS is looking at restitution only as part of the sentence / probation? Or if they also would see a seperate stand alone restitution order?

Reason I ask is the stand alones can be converted to civil judgements (and then no longer part of the criminal side) --- that one is the larger one in my case and will take longer to pay off.

I just paid off the sentence / probation ordered restitution 2 1/2 years ahead of schedule... woohoo!

Long ways on the stand alone --- but that's fine. Just hoping that one doesn't impact the waiver.

@Jazzsax #1013, I too would like to know more about Interpol, and what HatsBootsHats experience is with it. I had quite a high level of clearance when at Police, and never used Interpool to run names. It was my understanding that Interpool was more for "high profile" or "National Security"use, things like tracking Terrorist groups, ect. not for "common" criminal records.

I would love to know where Hats BootsHats gets his info that fraud charges are stored in Interpol. I've seen zero reference to this online anywhere. If anything your host nation has to decide to upload you to Interpol databases as a risk, and generally in most cases only does this when they are on the hunt for you and/or you are a flight risk.

If that was the case, I wouldn't have been allowed to even board my flight to Cuba crossing over the US. Makes no sense.

References or suggestions on where you have evidence to back this up would be appreciated HBH

HatsBootsHats not to pick on you, because some of your information, while not "practical" for waivers is informative. References as to where you GOT the information would give more validity. For example Michelle explained why she knows what she knows.

However this:

“Once convicted never travel until you get a pardon. Then try to get a file destruction to remove your FPS # if not destroyed. Now If you were involved in serious criminal activity you may be on Interpol so there's not much you can do. If your charges were dropped, you were acquired or discharged make sure you remove as much info as you can within CPIC through a file destruction before you ever travel”

No one on here is on Interpol. And once you get a pardon, there is no subsequent "file destruction". The record is SEALED, to possibly be brought back if you re-offend.

A "file destruction" is really when you were charged and not convicted. Withdrawn, dismissed and stayed charges for example, if there are NO convictions, can be 'destroyed'. Once you have a single conviction, files cannot be 'destroyed'.

Whats interesting is that some very unethical companies charge you for a 'pardon and file destruction' to get extra money out of you. Its a scam. Is that where you got this information?

Michelle, I don't take it personally, so correct anything you disagree with. The more I know, the better I will be at my job. I always want to be ACCURATE, not just RIGHT.

I have never seen a client denied entry into Cuba or Mexico or any other country in the world. I talk to a LOT of people. The airport was open today and I got 4 phone calls because I had a client there. If they were denying people, I would hear about it.

Carebear, I had many clients on social assistance get waivers, as well as housewives and caregivers. You would not have a problem at all.

To get back to the point on CPIC. Prohibitions, or conditions despite the pardons are usually sexually based (rare) or firearms (rare). It doesn't apply to most of you. If you have a record and have never been caught...you need a pardon not a waiver. If denied entry...you need a waiver.

One thing to keep in mind is that Michelle and I are on the 'front lines' meaning we know what we see every day. People call or come see us. We aren't sitting and looking up what COULD happen. Our advice is based on PRACTICAL, not theoretical experiences.

There is definitely a first for everything. It is true that Mexico will rarely deny entry since a lot of our BC clients with pages of offences go to Mexico on vacation. They made an exception with Clay though because of ICE.

1010 HATS BOOTS HATS You are right on the money. It is stupid that USA and Canada share this data since it only really hurts the innocent people. It personally pisses me off since there should be a free open border between USA and Canada. They do not have this level of scrutiny when living and travelling within the E U as an E U status person. The only exception is England can be very strict since the UK is full of people with criminal records

Btw I made a small error with the name APIS. It is actually called Advance Passenger Information System. Any aircraft that enters USA airspace will have already submitted their passenger list to CBP. So CBP will know about the Canadian flying to Mexico from Toronto.

We sometimes order the notes on certain clients and it shows your airline info and some entry and departure information. This is a good technique to do before you cross over(if applicable) and if CBP tries to claim that you overstayed. They see this info in the system and essentially try to connect the dots.

https://www.cbp.gov/document/forms/advance-passenger-information-system-apis-document-submission-requirements-arrival

As many of you have pointed out, CPIC is a complicated animal. Once you are charged, you receive a FPS # that is stored in CPIC for good. There are 4 levels to it and nobody knows for sure what the US has access too.

We do know that once you have a criminal record, it is stored in CPIC for good on level 1 unless you get a pardon. A pardon will seal the record but it will still show up as a sealed record on level 4. A lot of people get charged and later get discharged, acquitted or have charges dropped, this info is complicated to remove. A file destruction may help but solely done at the discretion of the arresting police department. There is also people who have had several police interactions but never charged. Some of this info can remain on CPIC for a lifetime until they pass away or actually never. For example, people who had a suicide attempt may be flagged as a person of special interest on CPIC. A pardon sometimes does not remove the FPS # and everytime you cross the border, a CBP agent can deny you entry. The federal government recently made changes where CBP agents cannot have access to some parts of the special interest category for people who had interactions for mental illness.

Level 4 would be for the vulnerable sector check. Every charge even if dropped or acquitted and any police interaction such as a suicide attempt will be revealed on level 4. This has caused a great hardship to people who are now putting pressure on provincial and federal governments to make changes often with objections from police forces. When it comes to job applications, level 1 which is basic record check will not reveal any record if a pardon is granted. However, any job that requires working with vulnerable people will reveal any police contact on level 4. What police agencies reveal on level 4 is at their discretion. A sealed record needs approval from the federal government to be revealed. Police agencies will not reveal a sealed record if it is not related to the job itself for the vulnerable sector check because the federal government denies their request. People with dropped charges, discharges, police contact, peace bonds or once investigated but never charged do not need a pardon and all the info is revealed by police agencies on the vulnerable sector check. Changes are being implemented to stop this practice by police agencies.

As many have pointed out, CBP can see you were once fingerprinted and deny you entry while looking through the CPIC levels. A higher ranked CBP agent can access info on that system that a regular agent cannot and take someone into secondary. CBP officers will then use several techniques into making a Canadian traveller confess about their past. There are also many other databases.

1) APIS, a system where everyone travelling over the US even though they never intend to land will be required to submit all their info onto that database. Travellers who fly over US airspace will be entered on APIS 24 hours prior by every airliner. A criminal record will be stored in APIS for good as travellers are being checked by Homeland security.

2) There are also other databases that are shared between local canadian police forces and US authorities which store someone's info for good. Several provinces have agreements with US states that share information for traffic violations and so much more.

3) Interpol's database will store for good all info of foreign travellers who have been involved in serious criminal activities. All countries have access to Interpol. A canadian pardon or file destruction never destroys such information. Fraud convictions are stored on Interpol as well as serious drug convictions and sexual crimes. This is why many people could be denied entry into Mexico.

4) Canada may have granted access to basic level 1 check of CPIC to some countries but we are unaware of it. Off course, they will never tell us. You have the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and US who are part of the 5 eyes meaning they have access to info about each other's citizens.

You have more chances of never being denied if you take the necessary steps.

Once convicted never travel until you get a pardon. Then try to get a file destruction to remove your FPS # if not destroyed. Now If you were involved in serious criminal activity you may be on Interpol so there's not much you can do. If your charges were dropped, you were acquired or discharged make sure you remove as much info as you can within CPIC through a file destruction before you ever travel.

The whole system is mostly made to punish people who were never convicted. Convicted people can use other resources to gain access to the US or move on.

@Jazzsax, In all the years, I have been involved in this business, I have never had anyone tell me they have been denied entry into Mexico..as I tell all my clients, book a direct flight to Mexico and enjoy your travels...

@CareBear #1005, a simple answer is yes to your questions; there are ways around an employment letter, I have clients who are retired or on a disability pension, so we use other forms of documents.

@John Rogers #1004, I appreciate your respect to my comments, and I in turn will show the same. The only thing I am going to comment on is your Fact #1. In 99% of the cases you are absolutely right, a fingerprint check result will come back "no record existing" especially for Foreign Travel, Immigration, and most standard criminal record checks.

The exception to this is the 1% who have received a Pardon for "certain offenses - and now require a criminal record check in the area of Vulnerable Sector such as Nursing, Social Work, Child Care, Taxi Driver, Adoption, Coaching, ect, where a person will be in care of a Vulnerable persons as defined by the Criminal Records Act. The criminal record check will come back "not clear", and a special set of fingerprints will be required to unseal the record. Sorry, I am going off topic, Criminal record checks are a whole other game, aside from Pardons and Waivers..It is nice to share valuable insights with other experts...

One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous comments, is another flag for US Customs when they run a name in CPIC where a Pardon is granted is a "prohibition order". A pardon does not remove or eliminate the effect of a prohibition order. It does not effect applying for one either...So for example, if you have a lifetime ban on weapons, this will remain Open in CPIC even though you may have a Pardon.

My understanding of Mexico - they have access to CPIC, at least from what I've heard. Also their wording is vague. They consider "Fraud" and "Tax fraud" as against the national interest and apparently will deny at the border. Have been afraid to take the risk to travel there.

@K SCOTT --- are you all suddenly friends now? Woah, did you guys get together for beers? LOL

I am in the sucky situation of being under the 5 years from sentence but needing to get a waiver for business reasons. Still paying restitution. By the sounds of it, it looks like it's going to be a crapshoot in the next 2 years, then much easier 2 1/2 years from now.

I had no issues travelling to Cuba back in January after getting my passport back from being surrendered. Nothing at YYC, no issues with APIS and the no-fly list, so either the US wasn't concerned I was an issue (I used to have Nexus, which obviously was revoked) or who knows.

*sigh*. what to do, what to do.

I've been reading through this forum and am getting somewhat of a great education as to the whole waiver process. I'm sure at some point I'll contact one of the professionals here.

One thing I've noted is waiver applicants needing a letter or showing that they are employed in Canada as being of great importance.

My problem is this. I came back to Canada to care for my elderly parents (including one with Alzheimer's) and was barred from America for an overstay. I have a 10 year bar/ban and have been back in Canada over 4 years now. One of these days it would be nice to take a vacation in the future even if it's just a weekend in Vegas or a short trip to NYC before my 10 years are up.

In those 4 years I have cared for my parents (still am presently). I have no employer here as I am a full time caretaker. I own a home (mortgage free as it's paid off) and have all the property records/taxes for that. I have had the same bank here for 30 years and have investment accounts. I file tax returns but am not showing any income as I've supported myself from a bank account I have in addition to accessing the funds my parents have entrusted to me for their care.

Is this satisfactory enough for me to show that I have significant ties to Canada since I don't have a standard formal letter showing "traditional employment" (meaning I'm not working for some company that can say I've been working there for a number of years)?

Michelle, thank you for the CPIC information. And your expertise is very evident on this topic. No feathers ruffled on my end because obviously when someone has expertise, its important that I take what information I have, and adjust it to what your bringing to the table. I have never worked for the police and you have, so you have a knowledge of CPIC I would not.

I cannot refute ANYTHING that Michelle has said, because I agree with almost all of it. The records are sealed, not destroyed obviously.

Here is what I would add, and I will stick to facts, instead of conjecture.

Fact 1. When you do fingerprints after a Pardon, the results come back as "no record existing".

Fact 2 I have a TON of Pardon clients since 1996. When I did pardons for social services in 2003 and was only charging $250/pardon, sometimes I was making 4 sales PER DAY. If the person was never denied entry into the United States, I would advise a PARDON ONLY. This was universal, and I have thousands of pardons since then.

Fact 3 I have NEVER once had a client who had a pardon come back to me because they were denied entry into the United States. I have had the odd person who claimed this but when we went through the dialogue at the border and then did a waiver, they usually could pinpoint some other time Homeland Security might have gotten the information.

Fact 4 I would benefit greatly if a pardon was not enough and everyone needed a waiver. Right now only 39% of my pardon clients need a waiver. Imagine who much more money I could make if I could boost my waiver business by even just 35%.

Fact 5 one of the great benefits of rugby and MMA is I get a lot of teammates and training partners form certain professions. I have had 2 VERY close friends who worked/do work at Homeland Security, and at least 3 other 'friends' who I knew more casually. As you can imagine, I would discuss what they can see at great length. I came to the conclusion that while they could sometimes tell if someone was charged but not convicted because they had an FPS number, pardoned records they were unable to see in any way shape or form. Now these officers were pretty cagey and tried to be careful wheat they said, especially at first. But for the ones that became closer, it was clear that Homeland Security had limits on what they could see.

In conclusion, if my pardoned clients suddenly needed waivers, I would be upset on their behalf because thats a serious breach of their privacy (in my opinion) From a business standpoint, I would be swamped. In a good way. For years.

This is what this forum is all about. You have Michelle's in depth information, and you have my view. Does anyone have anything to add? Remember, if you quote something you are just looking up on the internet, reveal the source, so we may check the source for accuracy.

@Everyone...I am not here to disagree with anyone, but I absolutely must clear up this "false" idea of Pardons and CPIC. CPIC is the RCMP National Database for Criminal Records. Now, I am going to ruffle feathers and I don't mean too, but here goes. I am telling you this because I was very in involved with CPIC, including audits, when I was at Police..I know it and understand how it works. A PARDON DOES NOT REMOVE A RECORD FROM CPIC - This is the huge myth that has been circulating for years, and many companies like Canadian Pardons and Federal Pardons tell their clients this, when it is simply not true. A CRIMINAL RECORD IS NEVER REMOVED OR DELETED FROM FILES UNLESS YOU DIE.....PERIOD.......it is however, sealed in accordance with certain laws, such as Employment purposes, Volunteering Purposes, ect, meaning that it is kept separate from existing criminal records. Pardon files are accessed and noted, in cases such as Vulnerable Sector criminal record checks..I won't even go into that right now. Traveling to other countries especially USA, and if you re-offend, your Pardon is revoked and your complete criminal record is available again. USA has access to CPIC and can access your Pardon File. CPIC is very complicated and has many different levels..not everyone has access to all the levels. When you have a Pardon and your name is run, your FPS # comes up and says file is closed. Automatically, the person running your name, knows that at one time you were in the system for some type of charge, now, what they do with that info is whether or not you get denied. They may ignore it, or they might look into the FPS # and see what was there. Not everyone has access to this, and most likely a supervisor has to get involved. Also there are many databases that hold your criminal information. When I processed criminal record checks I searched 4 different databases, and that was standard, if I really wanted to know more, I had access to several more. Can you imagine what US Customs access has....Now, it is true that many people with a Pardon have gotten into the USA for years, but that is slowly changing as many are being refused now..about 1/2 of my clients have Pardons that have been in place for years....Pardons are not for traveling to the USA and in most cases have limitations for employment purposes. I am not going to get into a debate with anyone on this subject..I am just helping people understand the difference between a Pardon and a Travel Waiver for the USA.

Is anyone approved for more than 5 years ever ?

From CBP website :

By regulation (8CFR 212.4 (3)(iii), a waiver may be valid for a maximum of five years. When you reapply for a waiver - again depending on the details of your offense - it may be granted for a longer period of time then the original. In making this decision, CBP considers the recentness, seriousness, type of offense, number of offenses, and credible evidence on your willingness and ability to sustain a rehabilitated status.

Another thing that I want to add is that there is a database called APIS which is Airline Passenger Information System. An example is that you fly from Canada to Mexico. The airlines will give that info to CBP and they enter the names into the database and automatically check for criminality. It is then downloaded into TECS and it stays there. These databases are networked, however, they do have holes in them. Another thing is that ICE and RCMP constantly talk to each other as well. This is how they got UN Gang Leader Clay Roueche, and anyone in Vancouver or Surrey will immediately know this name.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/gang+leader+files+complaint+against+RCMP+over+arrest/2189065/story.html

Fraud offences are easier to clear now. I have to admit that we do not rely on stats in terms of processing cases. I admit that stats do have their place in terms of these waiver cases. They can be used in many ways. However, we rely on the feedback that we are getting from clients since they are the ones getting the approvals and such. John is the expert on stats.

#997 Jazz Their convictions were between 5 to 10 years old. One guy ran a major credit card fraud ring here and he cannot get a pardon because he still owes thousands in restitution. He has had waivers for the past 3 years now and the restitution issue does not come up. You must also remember that each waiver case is different though. So far though...we have not had an issue with the restitution...yet. This could change though but has not been the case for us so far. We also get few RFE's (Request for Evidence). One big thing that has seemed to change is how they adjudicate waiver trafficking cases. Those are our major bread and butter cases in Surrey and they are getting harder to win now under Trump. We have to charge more for these kinds of cases now.

I also want to say that I am proud to know my 2 associates John and Michelle. We each have our own speciality area and you will soon see some of the exciting changes for waiver clients.

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