Testing123

What do you glean from this then?

http://legalservicesincorporated.com/what-is-the-benefit-to-filing-a-withdrawal-for-an-application-for-admission-to-the-u-s-when-does-it-come-up/

“grant individuals permission to withdraw the application for admission completely, which allows the traveler the opportunity to avoid removal proceedings and any potential ban on entry, and depart immediately from the U.S.”

You were never removed, so no ban due to removal is applicable to you.

However, you are still admissible due to being found to have overstayed.

Let me repeat that, you do NOT have a removal ban (9A or 9C). Your ban is due to overstay (9B1 or 9B2).

As I said, you either overstayed for over 180 days, or you did not (only you know whether you have overstayed over 180 days or not).

If you did overstay for over 180 days, you are banned because of this overstay, WHETHER OR NOT you were ever removed.

Picture another scenario. Let's say a guy admitted to have smoked weed to the border agent.

The agent would refuse him entry, and let him withdraw his application for admission.

The guy, despite technically withdrawing his entry to the United States and was never removed, would still be banned for life, and requires lifetime waiver, because the inadmissibility is due to him admitting to smoke weed.

The same logic applies to your situation. Instead of smoking weed, your 'offense' is overstay, and they give you the ban due to that.

As I said, I think you should consult a competent lawyer, or contact either John, Ken, or Michelle.

You would be able to send them all your documents so they can more properly access your situation.

:: @Testing123 added on 14 Aug ’18 · 10:47

“However, you are still admissible due to being found to have overstayed.”

I meant to say, you are still INadmissible. Sorry for the typo.

Testing123 and John Rogers.

If I’m on Canadian soil (as I am at a Canadian airport) even though I’m in Secondary at US Customs how can I be “removed” from the US if I’m not in the US?

Hence what removal proceedings could take place if I’m in Canada?

Furthermore why let me withdraw my application to ENTER the US?

That language explicitly says I’m NOT in the US since I obviously haven’t ENTERED yet. If I haven’t ENTERED then how can any REMOVAL take place?

@testing123 I didn't want to interrupt, you were giving some great advice.

@Samuel,. you need a waiver in my opinion.

“I didn't realize that I had this document that had allowed me to withdraw my application. In reviewing my documentation very recently I discovered this one page document which stated that I had indeed withdrawn my application to enter America. The fact that I was given a 10 year ban was somewhat specious to begin with.”

Hi Sam,

As I mentioned, the fact that you were allowed to withdraw voluntarily simply means that you have been denied entry to the US, but they exercised their discretion not to remove you and let you leave voluntarily.

The underlying ground of inadmissibility does not change, so if you have a 10 year bar, then you have a 10 year bar. In the documentation what did they write about your 10 year bar, and what's the law they quoted as the ground for inadmissibility? My guess is, it's probably 212(a)(9)(B)(i) (II), or sometimes, they would write something like 9B1 or 9B2 (probably 9B2, since the bar that comes with 9B1 is only 3 years instead of 10 years).

There are other grounds of inadmissibility which leads to a 10 year bar, but this is one of the most common ones (overstay over a year).

I have already quoted parts of the law, whcih explicitly stated that, if you have been unlawfully present in the US for over 180 days, then you are banned for either 3 or 10 years.

The underlying overstay offense (9B1 or 9B2) does not change, whether or not you were removed or let to leave voluntarily.

You either overstayed over 180 days, or you did not. if you did, then you are inadmissible and very very likely would require a waiver.

Maybe you should consult a lawyer, or directly call one of the experts in this board (Ken, John or Michelle).

Testing123

I didn't realize that I had this document that had allowed me to withdraw my application. In reviewing my documentation very recently I discovered this one page document which stated that I had indeed withdrawn my application to enter America. The fact that I was given a 10 year ban was somewhat specious to begin with.

If they wanted the ban to stick why would they give you this discretionary document that apparently allows you to avoid the ban but also doesn't allow you to enter the US at that time?

From my understanding and from everything I've read is that since Canadian airports are on Canadian soil even when placed in Secondary in US Customs (at a Canadian airport) then we are not under the full jurisdiction of American law since we are not technically on American soil. Land border crossings are a different issue since technically you're actually on American soil and subject to their laws as such.

It is, apparently, up to the complete discretion whether a CBP officer allows you to file this "withdrawal of application". When you do so it means that you wish to no longer apply to enter the US. This in effect allows the traveler the opportunity to avoid any potential ban on entry and not enter the US.

Any other experts JOHN ROGERS. K SCOTT, michelle, etc... wish to weigh in here?
It would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Testing123

Yes I am Sam (as you’ve seen on this thread)...I was given a 10 year bar but my documents seem somehow screwed up.

I also was given a document which allowed me to withdraw my application and just recently discovered I had it and indeed signed it and withdrew my application.

In researching it there seemed to me that this ability to withdraw my application somehow overrides my bar as they wouldn’t have actually processed the bar because I withdrew my application to enter the US.

Look up 212 a 9 B i I for inadmissibility due to unlawful presence over 180 days but less than 360 days. This carries a 3 year bar:

Any alien (other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence) who was unlawfully present in the United States for a period of more than 180 days but less than 1 year, voluntarily departed the United States (whether or not pursuant to section 244(e)) prior to the commencement of proceedings under section 235(b)(1) or section 240, and again seeks admission within 3 years of the date of such alien's departure or removal

Look up 212 a 9 B i II for inadmissibility due to unlawful presence over 360 days. This carries a 10 year bar.

Any alien (other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence) who has been unlawfully present in the United States for one year or more, and who again seeks admission within 10 years of the date of such alien's departure or removal from the United States is inadmissible

Testing123

Just curious as to your previous comment in #91...

“If you overstay over 180 days (or have criminal record or some diseases or a lot of other grounds of inadmissibility, etc), you would need I-192.”

Why would one need this I-192 if withdrawing my application for admission doesn't create a bar for future entry?

I haven't seen anywhere where this "overstay over 180 days" is mentioned in pertaining to the "withdrawal of application for admission" and thus would require a future I-192.
Anywhere you can point me to where that information is explicitly stated?

Additionally I'm guessing the most prudent thing for me to do is get a FOIA (to see explicitly and specifically what information they have on me - although I understand they redact some info on FOIA requests) as I don't want to buy a plane ticket and show up at the airport with all my documentation showing my ties to Canada and then end up getting denied. As we know under the Trump Administration traveling to America for non-Americans seems to be increasingly a roll of the dice as to whether one is admitted or not.

Thanks again.

@Samuel

By the way, are the same Samuel that had a 10 year bar (I went through some old threads and found that the Samuel account posted that he had a 10 year bar)?

If you really do have a 10 year bar, then you would definitely need a waiver. If you are unlawfully present in the US for over 1 year (360 days?), then you are barred from entry for 10 years, and would need to file I-192 if you're trying to enter before the 10 years are up.

>I was unable to prove that I had left the country when I was pulled into Secondary because I had travelled across the border by car previously. They don't always scan your passport when doing so and there is often no record of your leaving the US. The CBP Officer told me that that was one of the things that pissed him off most about the Immigration system and was a definite flaw in the system. (his exact words basically). He was actually the only one who was understanding to my case and the only one (of the CBP Officers) who treated me with dignity and respect when I was at the airport.

I guess that changes everything :)

It looks to me that you did not actually overstay, but the border agent was suspicious that you did, precisely for the reason you stated (no departure record). It is unfortunate, but CBSA did not share land entries of Canadian/US citizens into Canada with CBP (if you have been a non Canadian/non US citizen, your entry through land border into Canada would have been reported as departure from the US).

He could not necessarily prove that you were inadmissible, so I agree that you can try again to cross the border.

Next time, bring all documents you can to prove your ties to Canada (mortgage, pay stubs, employment letter stating you're working full time in Canada, etc).

Also, you can download your entries to the US through the I-94 website. See how many departures or entries are missing from your record.

You can also request for free from CBSA all your entries into Canada, and then match each entry into US with an entry into Canada to mark departure (let's say your I-94 record says you entered US on Jan 1, and your CBSA record says you entered Canada on Jan 10, then you know how many days you were in the US).

www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/req-dem-info-eng.html

That way, you can reconstruct all your trips to the US, and show to CBP that you never overstayed. And hopefully you would be let in (again, CBP has the right to deny entry any non American citizen, so no guarantee).

Testing123

I was unable to prove that I had left the country when I was pulled into Secondary because I had travelled across the border by car previously. They don't always scan your passport when doing so and there is often no record of your leaving the US. The CBP Officer told me that that was one of the things that pissed him off most about the Immigration system and was a definite flaw in the system. (his exact words basically). He was actually the only one who was understanding to my case and the only one (of the CBP Officers) who treated me with dignity and respect when I was at the airport.

Nevertheless the burden of proof was on me to prove I had left the US which I couldn't do because they never scanned my passport when I drove across.

My overstay was flagged as more than 180 days subsequently.

The officer gave me the form to withdraw my application for admission. I just recently realized I had this form and have taken it to mean (from my somewhat cursory research) that it means I don't actually have a bar nor require to reapply for admission to the US.

I have no other grounds for inadmissibility as I have no criminal record nor any other disqualifying factors.

I have been told that if I travel to have documents showing that I own property in Canada, bank records, statements, etc... since I'll be pulled into Secondary the next time I attempt to cross the border.

So you're saying an overstay on more than 180 days AUTOMATICALLY requires an I-192 even though I have the form showing I withdrew my application for admission?

I appreciate that you're taking your time to respond here.

Much appreciated. Thanks.

How many days of unlawful presence in the US did you have? If you have fewer than 180 days, then the overstay inadmissibility does not apply to you.

About withdrawal of application for admission, it depends on the discretion of the CBP officer dealing with your case. Often times, they would let you voluntarily withdraw except for something serious (but CBP still reserves the right to remova anybody they want to remove).

www.borderimmigrationlawyer.com/withdrawal-of-application-for/

Let's just say you were lucky to have escaped removal, and don't need to file the waiver for removal (I-212).

FOIA might actually help you see your ground of inadmissibility, but I'm not sure of the process and I heard it takes a very long time.

The best is to figure out how many of these unlawful presence days you had in the US and proceed from there.

:: @Testing123 added on 13 Aug ’18 · 17:49

>I was never removed but was flagged for an alleged overstay. So you are saying I still would need a waiver regardless of "withdrawing my application for admission..."?

If you were removed, you would need I-212.

If you overstay over 180 days (or have criminal record or some diseases or a lot of other grounds of inadmissibility, etc), you would need I-192.

If you were both removed and overstayed, you would need both I-212 and I-192.

In your case, you were never removed, but you probably overstayed over 180 days, so you do NOT need I-212, but you still need I-192 (unless you can prove that your overstay is less than 180 days).

#89

Testing123

So should I file a FOIA to find out exactly what is going on?

While I was inadmissible for an alleged overstay why would they give me the form to
"withdraw my application for admission..." which I understand is discretionary in giving you this option?

I was never removed but was flagged for an alleged overstay. So you are saying I still would need a waiver regardless of "withdrawing my application for admission..."?

Once again thank you for your thoughts and input.

My understanding is, while you have not been removed, you may still be inadmissible due to your overstay.

Because you were never removed, you did not to file I-212, but your overstay may still carry a 3 or a 10 year bar by itself.

Since you were never removed, you don't need I-212, but your overstay may require you to file I-192.

Had you been removed (instead of voluntary withdrawal), you would need both I-212 (for removal) and I-192 (for overstay over 180 days)

:: @Testing123 added on 13 Aug ’18 · 17:09

Just to add, removal and overstay are two different grounds of inadmissibility.

If you were removed and had overstayed, you would be inadmissible under both grounds.

Since you were never removed, you were only inadmissible because of overstay.

@Testing123
#87

It has been my understanding that having been given the option (which I gather is a discretionary action at the hands of a CBP Officer) to "withdraw my application for admission..." (which was given to me when I was traveling at Canadian airport) that...

A grant of permission to withdraw the application for admission is not an order of removal. The individual does not face a bar to returning to the U.S. and does not require permission to reapply for admission to the U.S.

Any other experts here I'd love to hear your thoughts.

And thanks to @Testing123 for the response. Much appreciated.

I do believe that it means you escaped expedited removal, which would come with a 5 year removal bar, and would require filing I-212 to overcome.

You still have to deal with your overstay (since it may be ground for inadmissibility if it's more than 180 days) though. Either ride out the bar (usually 3 or 10 years), or file I-192 to try to overcome it.

If they had not let you voluntarily withdraw the application, you would not only have overstay inadmisibility to deal with, but also removal.

Other experts may chime in.

If you are pulled into Secondary and told that you are inadmissible because of a possible overstay and the CBP Officer gives you a form to "withdraw your application for admission and to return abroad" (voluntary withdrawal) what exactly does this mean?

Does this mean that any ban you may have received is not in effect because you voluntarily chose to withdraw?

We would charge only $850 in your case since you are a member of the forum. We would do all the research and obtain the relevant data from the government. I would want to find out if they only got you for the 9b overstay or if they tried to throw in 6c Misrepresentation.

We would also honour this price if you needed a 2nd waiver for a Misrepresentation allegation. Either way, whether you need one or only 2 waivers, we would charge only $850 total in your case since you are a forum member.

I would like to also see your sworn statement or removal order to see if there is anything else that we should cover that could pop up in the future. Also, I assumed you went through removal proceedings in USA Immigration court or did the border give you the 10-year bar?

Either way, if it is only overs 1 year or more then yes the ban is 10 years.

:: @K SCOTT added on 13 Aug ’18 · 11:38

usentrywaiverservices.com

1 888 908-3841

604 332-9213

@K SCOTT

Overstay case here. Got banned for 10 years.

Canadian citizen, absolutely zero criminal record/history.

What would your fees be for a waiver for this?

Thanks.